If we're all going to make comics (and we all are, the year is still young), we've got to ingest the world outside the medium- after all, even Henry Darger was influenced by the weather. Late spring of this year, multidisciplinaries, Yugo Limbo and Lonnie Garcia, put down the modeling clay-covered stylus to dish about their work and respective influences outside the genre.
Yugo Limbo is the author of Be Kind, My Neighbor and Viscera Objectiva, they're one half of the game design studio LIMBOLANE along with Day Lane. Lonnie Garcia is an illustrator and author of Putty Pygmalion, he's an artist flamboyantly toeing the line between dichotomous worlds. Thank you Yugo, Lonnie, and Silver Sprocket for sharing this conversation with TCJ.
-Sally Madden
LONNIE GARCIA: I think I was introduced to your work…it was such a long time ago, but it was on Tumblr. I saw Ah, He's Sick [see below], and I really, really liked it, and I really liked the horror vibe that you built around it. Do you know what I mean? And how you incorporated collage and animated photo assets. I thought that was very cool.
What I was doing at that time, I was kind of experimenting with collage too, but very analog, just still images. So it was really cool to see somebody, you know, doing that! It was one of the only times I've seen people doing that, besides in Eastern European animation.
YUGO LIMBO: That was actually a really big inspiration of mine. Eastern European and Czech cartoons from the 60s and 70s. But I'm sure we'll get into that later.
Would you say that was an influence on how you developed that style? What were the big things that made you start experimenting in that manner with animation?
So for collage specifically, before I encountered Eastern European animation, I was first introduced to weird mixed media collage style through this Japanese animation duo called Gekidan Inu Curry.
A lot of people have probably seen their work for the witch scenes in the anime Madoka Magica. They’ve also done ending themes and interstitials for the Monogatari series too. They're a real powerhouse, and I am so into their style.
Madoka was the first time I'd ever seen anything like that, I was in high school.
I think the thing that really got me into experimental animation, though, is the Ottawa International Animation Festival. Yeah, that festival convenes animators from all over the world. A lot of those who do experimental stuff. So it'll be like, painting and sand and like clay, but not always in a narrative sense- abstract shapes animated to music, a lot of the short competition films you’re just looking at weird shit for like 16 minutes straight. And it's awesome.
I really like that.
Before the pandemic, I went every year since I started attending college, and it completely changed how I approached art.
Did you go to school in Ottawa?
No, I went to school in Detroit College for Creative Studies, and the school would go there as a group. And by as a group, I mean, they were like, “See you there. You're on your own. Drive for eight hours!”
That is awesome, I bet that was a huge influence on you.
Oh yeah, it completely changed how I approached art, but I had already been going in that experimental direction a little bit when I got exposed to Masaki Yuasa's work.
He's my favorite anime director!
I was just gonna say that he's my favorite animation director of all time, and he never misses. I think between him and David Lynch, they're probably my biggest influences.
I get that. David Lynch is awesome too. Gosh, Mind Game is just so phenomenal.
I got a tiny movie flier from when Mind Game was screened at a local theater, and I scanned it at a really high resolution, and then blew it up MASSIVE.
Awesome! I really like his work, Kaiba changed everything for me.
Okay, so I've seen your website- you have a lot of super cool illustration work. I can see these pieces seem to be at least one medium each, you've got awesome digital stuff and you've got your paintings and colored pencil stuff.
So, my question is, what made you want to do mixed media for Putty Pygmalion specifically, since it seems a little bit different from what you usually do?
It was kind of a ramshackle process, I initially wanted to do it all in full color. I got a dollhouse, I have it in my room- I'm looking at it right now. All I really knew is that I wanted the backgrounds to be photos of this dollhouse. I really think old vintage dollhouse furniture has a very distinct old film vibe to it, but it's kind of unnerving because everything is the wrong size.
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of crusty too.
Yeah, it is crusty, and you can't really initially tell at first when you're looking at it, that it's a small object, but if you keep looking it's like, oh, that's a table that's three inches tall. I was on a deadline, and the comic was a lot longer than I initially thought it was going to be. I got a little over ambitious, so I had to experiment with how I was going to do the comic. And the backgrounds, while I worked, I found that instead of having them in precise locations like they would be if the backgrounds were illustrated, I made them kind of skewed and disorienting, it gave it more of a horror feel.
I think that's perfect for what you were trying to accomplish with the story. It really fits.
Thank you! It was very fun to make and the gradient maps just came with experimentation. I was doing a lot of contract work at that time, and my contract work stuff is generally in a different style, it's more of just kind of like a classic fantasy TTRPG, which I also like doing, but it's not really where my heart's at. So, being able to take what I learned there, which was using gradient maps, and applying it to the comic was really great. A really big influence for me with how I did the colors in the comic was Hylics [a game by Mason Lindroth].
Oh yeah- I can see that.
I really liked the limited color palette and vibe, and also the fact that it was animated with claymation.
Having to work within those limitations only made it like a stronger piece. The other thing with mixed media that's really cool when you're drawing just 2d stuff, depending on how you draw I guess, there's something out there that might look a little bit similar! It's still obviously going to be your own thing, but with mixed media it's basically impossible to somehow come up with the exact same look as somebody else. So it's always going to look unique and individual no matter how you approach it.
Through experimenting with that, you can make something entirely unique because of exactly what you said- there's no way to really replicate a mixed media project.
When Silver Sprocket gave me the code to read PDFs on the site, I started consuming a lot of their comics, and I read Be Kind, My Neighbor [comic by Yugo]. I'm a huge nerd for the 70s, and 60s, especially like the later 60s. I really liked that it was a period piece and I can tell that you're really into that just kind of vibe and fashion and aura. And personally what got me into that was House, Phantom of the Paradise and Ralph Bakshi. I don't like him that much as a guy, but I love Wizards. There’s just so much weird, raw energy that came out of that period because of the former conservatism of the 50s. I also really just like Browns and greens, what can I say. What got you into that time period?
I was initially just drawn to the 60s at first, because I was developing a kid's show at Cartoon Network and the thesis of it was the sort of progress versus stagnation kind of thing that was going on in the 60s, combating the conservatism and tradition of the 50s. There was so much going on, the counterculture stuff, the constant fear of nuclear threat- Everyone was so stressed out, this was the height of people legitimately believing aliens were real and could come to Earth at any time.
Back then, you would see an [alien] photograph and be like, “Oh shit, that’s REAL!” If you saw something like that on the news there was no reason not to believe it. The Russians were in space, we were in space, sending radio signals out into the void, everyone was freaked out. So yeah, I just I learned a fuck ton about all of that through that project. I was already predisposed to loving 60s and 70s music, too.
Yeah, I'm a big 70s folk music head.
That’s the stuff! The music of that time period is inextricably intertwined with psychedelic artwork and weird art movements, and the sort of relationship between that and the paranoia of believing anything [supernatural] could be real, and everything feels like a threat, brought me to love studying that era, it was such a turning point for everybody all across the world.
And of course, you know, I'm from America, so I wanted to see what the hell was going on here, and it just led me down so many weird rabbit holes, things I never thought that I would learn about.
There was so much strange, interesting shit happening back then.
For instance, that dude who was trying to teach dolphins how to speak.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!! The Dolphin House!
Yes. That guy running it [John Lily] would take LSD and lay in sensory deprivation tanks and listen to dolphin audio tracks. So, to sum up, all those things converging, the politics of that century, the music, the arts, the weird religious stuff is just all so interesting to me, I like to pour it into all of the work that I do, to some degree.
Do you remember a specific moment or specific piece of media that launched you into the world of experimental art or mixed media?
Honestly, probably Mind Game. Mind Game and House [directed by Nobuhiko Obayashi] were big turning points for me.
Yeah, now that you mention it, Mind Game has a lot of mixed media in it.
It does, it's mixed media film, and when I saw that something clicked in my head and I was like, “I didn't know you could do that!”
Exactly. Yeah, it of opens the floodgates and you're like, “Oh, animation and film can be literally whatever the hell you want it to be!”
It's great. You can just do whatever you want. Especially with art school and growing up around a lot of very specific tutorials online, you start gaining an expectation on the kind of workflow that you should be having and the kind of art you should be making. Seeing art from somebody else where it just kind of tears down those rules completely, it just opens up new doors.
My next question is the puppet question. Oh, boy. So, I love puppets. I grew up with them, like many people, and my favorite movie for a really long time was Little Shop of Horrors because of, you know, the obvious. But when I got into college, I got back into puppetry, especially Jim Henson. I really connected to a lot of the work he was trying to do, and his explorative spirit, he just had a really good body of work. It seemed like it was a really cool thing to be involved in at the time. If I had been born in a different period, that's something I really would have liked to be involved in. But what got you into puppets? I know you're a big puppet person.
So, every single kid in America grew up on Sesame Street and The Muppets. But in a similar vein to what we were talking about earlier with the whole, “Oh, I didn't know you could do that [with art]!” thing, I remember in early high school, Don't Hug Me I'm Scared came out.
And that merged two worlds of my interests with puppets and really experimental stuff. I'm very glad that they kept going, especially with the new show that came out because it’s five times as experimental as anything they ever did with their YouTube shorts, and I'm very happy to see it.
I'm glad they got the funding. They make some really brilliant work.
Oh, absolutely. That's what got me into designing puppet-like characters and stuff like that. Now, for the longest time, I was only drawing the characters, and I had the Dr. Habit puppet made for Smile for Me [see below] just because it seemed like it was the right thing to do. I didn't really know if I was going to do anything with puppets beyond that. But then last year I started watching this show called 31 Minutos from Chile, a show about weird animal puppets that run a terrible news station.
Awesome.
And seeing how homemade it was and how they sort of showed this thesis of like, anything can be a puppet, a trash can can be a puppet, a pair of scissors can be a puppet, like they will literally turn the weirdest stuff into a puppet. And I was like, “you know? This is very true. Maybe I can do the same thing. Maybe I can make a little puppet show of my own.”
Right now I'm working on some puppets with my partner [artist Val Eerie] that we intend to turn into this little multimedia show experience that we're probably going to put online. They're turning out very good.
I want to take that experience beyond just drawing puppets and having them show up in my video games and stuff because that's still like, you know- still puppetry, but like, turning it into a full blown like puppet driven experience, something that is driven by the puppets itself.
Yeah!
And I guess a little bit steering a little bit harder into your question. I think the reason that I like puppets so much is that they're this weird halfway between cartoons and the real world.
And I think that's so interesting- it's like a living cartoon, one that you put a piece of yourself into. It's like you're giving something life.
Have there been any media highlights that utilize mixed media that stood out to you in the last couple of years?
Oh, yeah. Probably The People's Joker.
Excellent. Yes.
Yeah. That movie blew my mind because really I've never seen any movies that looked like that. I've seen animation stuff like, you know, like Bembo Davis and Jonni Peppers.
Yes!!! They’re so cool! I’ve known both for a while now.
But that movie is unique, and kind of groundbreaking because it's the first live action film I've seen that has that digital multimedia look, and I think that's really, really cool.
One of the local theaters here [in Seattle] has this CRT in the window that will always play something that they're highlighting, and they have a bunch of highlight reels from The People's Joker. I haven't seen the full movie yet, but I stood there in front of that CRT for like a good 15 minutes, and I was like, okay, where can I see this?
Also, another thing that it's not from recently, but another multimedia project. It's Exterminator City. It's one of my favorite, favorite movies. And it's made by this guy in 2005. And it's by this guy named Clive Cohen. He never directed a movie again. And he made a bunch of gnarly, gross little robot puppets, in his basement or something.
I'm looking at them right now, and they're great.
Oh, it's such a disgusting movie. I love it so much. I will take any opportunity to talk about this movie or show it to people.
And that's kind of the thing, right? Like, yeah, if you want to make a weird movie, you can just make a weird movie! This is the biggest piece of advice I always like to give people, because I don't know, like people will come up to me and be like, “What do I do? Give me your advice!!!” And my biggest piece of advice is if you want to make a thing, make it now. Don't think “oh, but I'm not good enough”. Don't wait until you think you're at that skill level, because you're always going to think that you need to get better. And then you're never going to make the thing.
Exactly. I'll take any movie like this over something that has a massive budget because I know it's honest. Yeah, that's what I'm looking for in art.
Yeah, I totally feel that. It is important. Not enough people acknowledge that. Crust is extremely important in all kinds of media.
I really appreciate crust, and I really appreciate when people who don't have formal art backgrounds just do things and make things. I'm an art school dropout and I learned a lot of things myself, and I like it when other people just like to learn things through experimentation just because they want to. It's really cool.
Yeah, I think everyone should try to make a piece of art in their life, even if they've never drawn before because there are so many ways to make art.
Yeah, and people making things when they've never drawn before too is often my favorite stuff because they just have a unique approach to it that is not informed by traditional art practices, and I think it's more unique in a way.
Yeah, and this kind of comes back into the experimental art films I was mentioning that I would see at Ottawa because a lot of those, when they have characters or faces drawn in them, they are not drawn by people who can like quote unquote draw well, I guess, but that makes them so much better. Like it's so much more interesting that way, I think.
They look cooler. It's just people trying things out. Like my last partner, they didn't have a traditional art drawing background, and they rarely drew at all.
But when they did, I really liked everything they made just because they just really had a unique approach to everything. I just thought it was really cool. When I watched The People's Joker, it was like, dang, now I just want to make a movie, even though I've never made a movie before, like you can just learn as you go with a lot of things.
Absolutely. And I agree, like, I would like to make a movie someday too, because I don't know, I just, I love every facet of art so much that I just want to try everything at some point.
Yes! I'm much more of a person who likes to try different styles and different mediums, than just like honing in on one thing.
So my next question is a little short, but I'm very interested to hear your thoughts: earlier you were talking about how your deadline limitation pushed you to do some really interesting stuff that ended up looking more distinct than if you were to spend way more time drawing backgrounds and stuff. And this definitely is a thing that works very well in illustration. But that same sort of quote unquote, time saving thing can be applied to animation.
So yeah, my question is: Have you ever made animation or considered making animation involving mixed media?
I would really like to. I love animation. I originally actually went to school at PNCA, the Portland art school, for animation. At the time, the only animation major they had was experimental. So I did a lot of weird stuff, but I'm not very happy with what I was doing back then because I was very rushed, you know.
Oh, yeah, it's hard to learn that stuff and execute it quickly at school, I think.
Oh, yeah, you don't have enough time to breathe, unfortunately. But I really like experimental animation, and I'd really like to animate more in general, and maybe make a little film someday or a point and click. That would be awesome, that would be like my dream… And it's not really something you see a lot, like I think the closest thing I see is that woman who was making…god, what was her name? She was like, “Excuse me, sir.”
Molly Moon! That shit is awesome. That's another example of somebody who uses multimedia in the past few years who’s really talented.
Absolutely. Every time I see her stuff, I'm like, how is she doing this? She's just really cool.
The interesting thing about her is like- I don't know anything about her, all I know is that before she was doing this, she was just primarily and is still doing onlyfans stuff.
Yeah, she's an onlyfans girl who's also making art and also kind of incorporating that into the art that she's making, which I think is really awesome.
It's unreal. I mean, I think she's getting a lot of attention, but I think she deserves to be treated like a pioneer, like a very important artist in the online space.
Definitely, most people sharing her work are just like, “Lol, this is so weird.” and move on. And I'm like, noo!!
The way she animates is very unique. She is just like a huge artistic influence for me. and I would love to make something like that someday. I would love to make a film, but unfortunately with my comics work right now I just don't have the time, but I hope to have the time to at least make, I mean, it would probably take just as much if not more work, but I would love to have the money and facilities to make an animated point and click someday. I think that would be the perfect way to express that urge for me.
Making point and clicks is very interesting. It's a lot of work. I can say this because I'm on my second one right now and yes, I admire that.
I don't know how you do it.
Well, you see, I have a very talented work partner who's a wizard with game design and programming.
Is that the Lane part of Limbolane?
Yes!
That's awesome.
I don't know anything about programming. [laughs]
So you answered this a little bit, but where do you source your photo material you use in your comics, and do you make it all yourself or find it [in] other places?
I made most of it myself. I was a little convoluted with the way I did everything with Putty, I think I just got really autistic about it. I got the dollhouse, and most of the props were doll furniture I bought off of Facebook Marketplace.
Oh, that's awesome.
The other images I would try to get from my house, and some of them are online photos, and there is one 3D asset in the whole comic, it’s Derryl’s mug. It's just kind of like a mishmash of a bunch of stuff, but most of it is photographs I've taken, then a small percentage of it is just like royalty-free images that have just been greebled to hell.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean, and I do the same thing.
Sometimes you just got to do it. It's like you just got to go and grab something because the assets you've made just aren't enough.
Yeah, that's okay.
That's the beauty of online.
Yeah, like I love the Wikimedia Commons. That's where I get a lot of the stuff that I can't make myself. Because it goes back real far. They've got a bunch of old photos from the 1800s, and they've got such a huge resource of stuff that you can then use and turn into art. And you know, like you said, greeble it up so it's not like just the thing that you're taking.
Yeah, I think that's an important thing with taking media that's not necessarily yours, if you're going to incorporate it into your art. Honestly, that's kind of the whole principle of collage is that you're taking photographs by other people, and you're just mashing it together.
I think the thing that separates that from being cool and not cool is how much you greeble it and make it your own. So I try to greeble. I'm a big greebler with shared media.
As we keep saying, the crust is important.
The crust is important, and I love the crust. That's why I love the posterization tool so much. It immediately makes something crusty. I don't know what I can do without it.
And like for me personally, I try to do as much as I can myself. Like I love doing like, I guess it's not stop-motion, but it's this weird like in-between, it's called pixelation where you take an object, take photos of it, and then use that as animation.
For example, in Ah He's Sick. There's those fake dentures, the little chatter teeth. Those are just me taking pictures with my phone and like slightly moving them and then animating it in Photoshop.
I love that.
So I love doing that kind of thing. And I plan to keep doing that whenever I get a chance to do more film stuff because I don't really have the opportunity right now because I'm hella busy.
I was gonna ask with Ah He's Sick. Did you get that fish yourself? The one that was the narrator.
Oh my god. Yes, so I got my dad to catch that fish, because I really needed a pike, I needed a long fish to be a bus. And my dad is obsessed with fishing, and he was like “Okay!” So he brought me that fish. And I was like the bane of everyone's existence that day when I had to animate that fish, because you know it's a fish, it smells.
And the problem was it was during winter, and it was acquired during ice fishing and brought to me in an ice bucket. So I had to thaw it out, and I was on school grounds, so I had to thaw it out in the bathroom. So, picture me in the bathroom with the hot water blasting, like holding a fish, and like it was like a cartoon or like a movie moment. Somebody comes in, sees me with a huge like two foot long fish, and they smell it.
I didn't know it was so big.
They just turn around and leave. It was really fun and I shot it on a downshooter. Eventually the fish did get thawed, the whole animation basement smelled, because you know, of course the animation major took place in the basement of the school. But yeah, yeah, it smelled bad, and I felt really bad about it, but it was really funny. But yes, that was indeed a fish that was sourced in real life.
I love that. It's so fun to do things physically like that. I made the little Peters and Putty Pals out of Play-Doh for authenticity, and it was really fun.
I love that it's Play-Doh, by the way.
Yeah, I wanted to do it with Play-Doh, it felt right, but I'm probably going to be making up a couple Peters for Silver Sprocket, and those will probably be Sculpey, so they will be more sturdy, because Play-Doh falls apart, unless you do something in one big chunk. It's kind of like edible dough that’ll harden, get really brittle and then break apart, but it doesn't have any really big preservation method, you know.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, they have that like- oil based clay that you can use for stop-motion.
Oh yeah, the plasticine.
Yeah, and there's that, which I feel like could be fun for little guys that you need to last longer and pose in a ton of different ways.
I do want to play with plasticine more. It seems very fun.
So, are you making the guys out of Play-Doh and sending them over or are you using Sculpey?
I'm probably gonna use colored Sculpey so it kind of looks like Play-Doh. Like I was gonna paint them, but Sculpey already comes in colors, and it would be more authentic to the look.
Yeah, totally. Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah, I used to make a lot of little clay guys and sell them at Christmas fairs and stuff when I was a kid.
I love that.
It's so fun. I love clay. I love making things.
Yeah, I suck with my hands a little bit. So I'm not the best sculptor, but like, I want to get into it because I similarly love making little guys.
We already covered this a lot, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Do you want to see people incorporate more photography and collage and general multimedia in comics? I think there's a big opportunity for experimenting in the genre, and I feel like Silver Sprocket especially has been putting a lot more experimental work out, and it's exciting. And if that's the case, what would you like to see more of from people?
I think that incorporating, you know, collage and photography and stuff is also a great way for people who might not be like the best at drawing backgrounds or certain things to get their foot in the door and do stuff because like, hey, maybe their drawings aren't like the best, but like we said, the crust makes it better.
It feels more honest. And again, they just make it stand out because not a lot of people are doing that.
No, it's pretty rare. There's like four people on Twitter that do it, and they all know each other.
And again, I think it's because people don't know that it's an option.
Exactly.
Nobody owns collage comics. So like if you see someone else doing it, you should do it because you can do it in your own way. Like you said with mixed media, like it's so hard to copy somebody. You have to make it with your hands. You have to source the photos yourself. So it's never going to look the same. Anybody can do it. So when you ask “what kind of experimentation would you like to see more of”, I want to see younger people just make weird shit so that they don't have to be like, “oh, but I'm not good at this. Oh, but I'm not good at that”. I'm not saying it's like a total substitute for learning. But if it helps them get the job done, I think we will start to see a very interesting like, quote unquote, trend emerge. And I really hope that more people can do that.
Me too. There's already a lot of younger people making so much good art. I do hope for more of that kind of stuff.
I wrote one more question. Do you have any big artist inspirations that use mixed media? You've listed a lot throughout.
Let's see….my main influences are all crusty-ass movies. I really like Return to Oz, I really like Wizards, I like Happiness of the Katakuris, Exterminator City. Those are all multimedia, There's just so much shit like that that's just so fucking cool. And again, Masaaki Yuasa. I think he influenced my work so much, I was obsessed with him for a long time.
I'm also somebody who really really really likes Devilman. I've liked Devilman for a really long time so when I found out he was directing a Devilman show I just went nuts. I also really like the guy who does Hedgehog in the Fog.
Oh my gosh, I was gonna bring that up. It was like one of the things that I first got inspired by multimedia stuff, what is his name, Yuri Norenstein?
Yuri Nornstein, yeah.
Yeah, I cannot believe I remembered that name.
I love his work. It's so dour in a very particular way. Another person I would say that influenced me very early on when it comes to multimedia stuff is the director of Blood Tea and Red String, Christiane Cegavske.
Yes, I watched that this past year.
I was really into Jonni Peppers stuff for a while too, like especially her early stuff that had stop-motion.
Yes. Yeah. What was it called? All of the titles for her stuff are really long and complicated.
The Earth is Flat, I think. There are some animators who aren't necessarily multimedia, but they kind of influenced me anyway, like the guy who did the Raggedy Anne and Andy movie.
Oh, my God. Yeah, Richard Williams actually directed that. And then they lost the budget, and he did not direct the rest, and you can tell.
I fucking love that movie. It's so good.
It's a disaster. I love it.
I love it so much. Oh, one more thing that was a big influence for me multimedia wise was Peter Gabriel's music videos.
Yes, hell yeah.
And also the Bjork music video for Wanderlust.
Yes. Okay, like music videos are like a whole separate animal.
Yeah, it's awesome. It's so good. Oh, I have one more: Wallace and Gromit.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I think Wallace and Gromit was the first claymation I ever saw as a kid and it scared the shit out of me, but I was obsessed with it.
Yeah, Wallace and Gromit is unbelievable. They're so good. I'm very sad about what happened to most of the puppets that they had.
I don't know what happened to them, but I'm guessing they burned down in a warehouse fire.
Yep, yep, yep.
Always, always happens. Why does that happen all the time? That's what happened to the Rock and Rule soundtrack. I like it when things are kind of messy like that movie. I was just going to say like another multimedia thing I love that's an influence on me is Roger Rabbit, of course, and also it’s evil cousin Cool World.
Oh, yeah.
That's one I can't recommend to people in good conscience, but you know that is still one of them.
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I like to draw influences from that I absolutely cannot recommend to anybody, but are still valuable pieces.
Exactly. I know I said that was the last one, but I just thought of one more person who did influence my stuff a lot. Henry Darger.
Oh, yes. Yeah. He's the guy that did the little fairies, right?
Yeah, he did the Vivian Girls.
Yes!
I really am very, very drawn to artists that were very clearly neurodivergent or queer people.
Oh, absolutely.
People who just kind of like never gained recognition within their lifetimes, and they were just kind of making work for themselves. It makes me really melancholy, you know, but at the same time with people like that…like gosh, there's this woman whose music I've been listening to lately who kind of has the same thing going on, like way ahead of their time. One person who actually did get some fame and who's still around who I really like is David Liebhart. He is the guy he used to be in, gosh, Tim and Eric. And he's in The People's Joker too. I think people tend to make fun of him, but I think he's a really cool and funny artist, you know. And he does a lot of weird puppetry, and he does like a lot of weird drawings.
Yeah, like I was going to say, I didn't know him by name, but I knew his puppet Chip.
Yeah, actually, Bembo did a music video for him.
No shit. That's awesome.
He makes music, too. He's got a manager taking care of him, and he's getting his bag while doing the stuff he does.
Yeah, that's awesome. I'm happy for him.
Me too. I love to see somebody like that thriving. Yeah.
