Stout on Creator's Rights

ARCUDI: And yet, most people make the decision to draw somebody else's characters.

STOUT: I know. It cracks me up. When you do your own stuff, you also end up with a potential licensing property. Plus, you don't have anyone telling you what to do, at least at a certain point. You may later if things become so enormously successful that your control and power is being wrested from you. But that's like winning the lottery. I'm seeing in alternative comics the beginnings of what I consider to be a renaissance within the media. I see comics growing up. I see the alternative books as the fruit that was born from the seeds of the undergrounds. I see such an array of personal expression within the field. In going to APE, the Alternative Press Expo, I was really struck by the quality of the fans as well, the quality of the readership, the quality of the people who attended that show. They were really passionate about the stuff that they were reading. They were literate and concerned about the text. They were concerned about the art, but not in a way that was even remotely similar to the superhero fans. It was on a higher intellectual level, a much more personal level. The project that I'm working on right now sort of combines an alternative point of view with the superhero genre. I've always loved superhero comics, and I'd like to do a superhero that crosses over and combines the personal qualities of say Daniel Clowes's work or the Hernandez Brothers' work with the superhero genre.

ARCUDI: I'm struck by the sort of curious nature of the industry as it is today, that there is a greater array of material available to a smaller audience. The illusion I think is that there are more creator rights than ever.

STOUT: The illusion. There is more of an attack on creator's rights now than I've seen in my entire life. With the consolidation of the entertainment industry into three entities, they are doing everything they can to crush creators and roll back our hard won rights. I've never met with such resistance in my whole history of being in the entertainment business. I've been fighting for artist's rights ever since I've been in this business.

ARCUDI: They resist.

STOUT: That's for sure. I certainly don't get support from the comic art community for what I've done. I can't tell you how many times I've been stabbed in the back -- not by publishers, but by fellow comic artists who I've helped -- all of whom pretended to be my "friend" or a fan of mine. But, hey -- that's blood under the bridge. I've been constantly trying to set precedents, and apparently I have to be the guy to set these damn precedents because so few artists are willing to fight for themselves. They just roll over for the companies; it's really disgusting. The hard thing about setting a precedent is that on the company side, no one wants to be the first guy to give in on something to an artist. There's no problem being the second guy, because if you're the second guy you can always point to the first guy: "We did it this way last time." You've got a scapegoat. If you've given the artist something that's never been given before and if it doesn't work out or it blows up in the company's face, then that negotiator usually gets fired. So, you need that precedent. It makes it easier for me the next time I negotiate; I can always say, "Well, I got it on my last job." "You got it on your last job? Okay. You can have it." By setting that precedent I've made it much easier for other artists.

ARCUDI: And this perception of resistance and erosion of creator's rights is based on personal experience?

STOUT: Not just mine -- it's everyone I know. My feeling is that if we creators can weather the storm and stick to our guns we'll be all right. But if we cave in, we're going to end up as serfs. It's just going to be horrific. The other aspect of that is whenever something like that happens, immediately an underground culture is created. I think that's sort of what's going on right now with the alternative comics. It is a sort of underground culture. It's not like the underground culture of the '60s, where we were exhilarated by the freedom of being able to show sex and drug use and whatever else we wanted to do. I think the fruit that I was talking about is that we are now in a place to say, "Okay, with all of the choices open to us now in expressing ourselves through comics, we can choose to work on themes that are deeply important to us; things about which we are passionate. We don't have to just do superheroes. We don't have to do girly books or whatever. We can reveal aspects of the human condition in a way that is meaningful to people, and we can take the medium of comics to the next level -- that of high art." I have to say that I think comics have more potential for that than movies will ever have, at least until the point at which movies can be made cheaply or more or less be made by one person.

[To read the full version of this interview, please see The Comics Journal Winter 2003 Special Edition.]

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